Episode #11: The “WSJ" Marketing Problem with Rand Fishkin
“Prioritizing one publication because of an executive’s passion isn’t always wrong, but it will often bias a marketer […] to spend far more time, energy, and dollars than the coverage is worth.
Have that hard conversation to make it clear what’s being sacrificed.
”
- Rand Fishkin, Founder of SparkToro
Welcome to our season 2 kickoff! In this episode we discuss a situation all PR’s and content marketers have found themselves in before: a boss or client demanding a “prestigious placement,” foregoing the (actually, HUGE!) potential of working with other, "less prestigious sounding" publications.
In this episode, you’ll learn...
What exactly is the “Wall Street Journal” marketing problem, and why it’s a problem at all.
How to respond to this through honest conversation rooted in rational, data-driven thinking
The value of working with the “little guys,” and how to find these publications that your target customers ACTUALLY engage with
Our guest is:
Rand Fishkin, founder of SparkToro and previously the co-founder of Moz.
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Timestamps
:02 -- Britt gives a warm welcome back to our listeners and some insight into what to expect in season 2.
1:16 -- Britt introduces our guest, Rand Fishkin, founder of SparkToro and previously the co-founder of Moz.
2:35 -- Rand gives an overview of what he calls the “WSJ marketing problem.”
5:00 -- We’ll talk more about this, but first-- a side note on bearded dragons! And an intro to our honorary co-host, Daryl.
6:37 -- Back to the “WSJ marketing problem” and Rand’s concern with it, specifically how hard it is for marketers to respond to this.
8:55 -- Britt speaks in detail about how she can relate to this and how she approaches this in her own consultancy.
10:07 -- Jackie asks what kind of data PR’s can present to their company or client to back up the case to go after smaller, niche publications. Rand goes over the 3 pieces of data that he has seen work well.
11:40 -- Rand mentions SparkToro helping generate the 3rd of the 3 things that work well. He goes into detail about the initial inspiration behind the tool as well as how this helps inform that 3rd point.
14:05 -- Britt asks Rand how does a PR or marketer sell the value of working with a niche influencer or smaller outlet without having worked with them in the past and what the vetting process even looks like. Rand explains how serendipity plays a role (PR’s, who often depend on serendipity, may love this!). And, quite frankly, he doesn’t sweat the ‘little stuff” when it comes to vetting publications. He goes on to explain why.
17:10 -- Jackie talks about her reliance on working with these smaller publications to keep up the consistency with placements.
18:26 -- Rand mentions the role of reputation management. He mentions what is called “barnacle SEO.”
19:45 -- Rand mentions the power of networking in being open to working with every outlet that is willing to work with you online.
20:43 -- Britt mentions in her personal experience that working with more niche publications may oftentimes lead to more in-depth featured pieces for her clients. Rand agrees
25:05 -- Britt asks Rand how marketers can have the “hard conversation” with clients. Rand discusses the role of open honesty
31:00 -- Rand talks about journalists sticking to their own niche circles on Twitter. Sometimes a story covered by small media may be discovered and then picked up by large media. Rand and Britt share very recent examples of this.
36:21 -- Rand talks about a creative outreach tactic a PR team used on him that resulted in the company getting featured in a 3rd-party outlet that Rand was originally quoted in.
38:56 -- Rand talks about the market research functionality of SparkToro. He mentions other tools that have similar capabilities. (Spoiler: this inspires Jackie to release a new resource page on the WEM website.)
46:50 -- Britt asks Rand for any final thoughts. Rand talks about a new, exciting feature on Sparktoro.
50:09 -- Jackie plugs the Carl Anthony episode as a great listen for anyone wanting to sharpen their niche publication outreach skills.
Things we mention
Connect with Rand
Connect with Jackie & Britt
